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Abortion

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by blake916, May 12, 2009.

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  1. blake916

    blake916 Newbie

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    I believe abortion should be allowed in certain cases. How about you? If this discussion is not allowed, I am sorry.

    Courtesy of the Grammar Faerie
     
  2. interhacker

    interhacker Level IV

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    Re: A real hot topic...

    Believe*

    And its fine to debate about :)

    Maybe you should start by justifying why you think it should be allowed?
     
  3. blake916

    blake916 Newbie

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    Re: A real hot topic...

    Mk i shall... it should be allowed in some cases because not everyone is nonresponsible and should i women *if raped* have the burden to tell their son/daughter they were born b.c she was raped? It can cause some really f'd up problems :/ Only reason some people are against it is b.c they think its "killing" a person... it is if its in the there for i think 3 months or so? Only b.c the baby starts to form... Honestly more people believ its also wrong b.c of their religion :/...anyways xD reply if u want
     
  4. lolcow

    lolcow Level III

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    Re: A real hot topic...

    [​IMG]
    This is a debate forum. Use complete sentences and at least attempt to spell words correctly. FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU

    If you're going to rage, do it properly.


    There are two main questions concerning abortion:
    -Whether abortion is a moral decision for a woman, given her specific situation. This might include consideration of her religious beliefs, age, marital status, health, economic status, available support systems, genetic makeup, etc.
    -If, after a woman has consulted with her physician, her friends, the hobo on the street, and has decided to seek an abortion, whether the government should veto her decision.

    When does life begin? Is 3 months too early? Too late?

    Fuck this shit. Neither side will ever win this debate.
     
    daFalco, Arkley and (deleted member) like this.
  5. blake916

    blake916 Newbie

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    Re: A real hot topic...

    Well let's see, no side will win but it's worth talking about. if you don't like it or don't care for what anyone says then don't get on this topic. Also, i dont care if i misspell if you do you can go to ever topic i do and correct me >.> maybe then you wont care either :D also people can talk about debating topics here and GUESS WHAT :D this is one you idiot xD
     
  6. daFalco

    daFalco Level III

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    Re: A real hot topic...

    I agree with this. Especially the question concerning when life begins... such an open ended question. Is it when the heart grows? The brain starts growing, or is it when it gains a resemblance of function? Is it when the embryo has achieved divison, or is it after the pluripotency stage?

    Gah.
     
  7. Arkley

    Arkley Level III

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    Re: A real hot topic...

    Abortion is such an overdone, go-to topic for built-in controversy. If you want something controversial that people don't talk about on a daily basis, something that transcends innumerable taboos, start a debate about circumcision or something.
     
  8. dreamlorde

    dreamlorde Level III

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    Re: A real hot topic...

    My gut reaction to the question "Is abortion okay?" is no. It's probably not a coincidence that I also like animals, hold life as sacred (not religious, just a gut thing), and wouldn't be interested in drilling down to the scientific answer of when life begins to make up my mind on this. I have a feeling that pro-abortionists who are focused on the minutiae of when life technically begins aren't really interested in that answer except as a possible means of justification. To put it another way, if the pro-abortionists discovered the opposite of what they support - that sentient life begins the moment the sperm gets in the egg - I don't believe they'd just throw in the towel, apologize, and say "Wow, we didn't realize we were truly killing living beings. Abortion is wrong and it's over."
     
  9. interhacker

    interhacker Level IV

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    Re: A real hot topic...

    The idea of a debate is not always to win, somtimes is about discussing points, its about trying to find reason within others beliefs.

    Neg rep :(
     
  10. Dreamerz

    Dreamerz Level III

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    Re: A real hot topic...

    i dont agree with it being a mother and all but i can understand where it can be used , if its dangerous for the mother to carry a baby then its fine I think, and as well as some other factors. Its legal here up until your 12 or 16 weeks cant remember but my opinion is that it should be allowed in some cases and yes just for the sake of having an abortion it shouldn't be allowed but then there would be crazy women trying to do it themselves like they have seen in the past..........................I give up i don't even know my answer to this anymore lol
     
  11. Freja

    Freja Level IV

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    I totally think abortion is okay - what if your father (or some other guy) raped you and you got pregnant? You HAD to have the baby even though it's not wanted. And if you had a baby with some kind of handicap that you wouldn't be able to take care of - or if you were extremely poor - or you were too young etc.? I have to many arguments.. I mean, if a baby isn't wanted it shouldn't be born.

    I see the complex, that a baby is a life. I know that. But if it were lame or something it would probably wish it wasn't born in the first place anyway. If you can't provide a good life for your child, you shouldn't get it - or at least adopt it away. It's a difficult question to raise, though, because it IS a human being - even though I don't think a sperm celle is a human being.. And I'm glad that there are some limits to when you can remove the baby, because if it gets old enough, it's actually murder.
    But I think it should be legal (it is here, thank god) - and we don't seem to have many problems with it being legal.
     
  12. FastBullet

    FastBullet Level IV

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    If it weren't for abortion we will have been right now over 7.5 billion people on the planet. It may sound cruel but it's needed in some cases like Freja said. I totally agree to it but I will never put my wife to abort my child never. It's every woman's choice.
     
  13. Smirnoff

    Smirnoff Level IV

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    where the hell did you pull 7.5 billion from? We have about 6.8 billion on the planet right now. Abortion has only been an option to the common classes for the past 40 years or so. Before this Abortion was an option however only to the extremely wealthy or those who were so desperate the would turn to the alleys for abortions (some still do)

    Point aside, even accounting for the accrued 2000 years worth of abortions (and the children the aborted foetus would have had) there is no way it amounts to 700 million people.

    @ Freja. There are a plethora of drugs available to rape victims which will prevent the fertilization from actually occurring. Some of which can be taken a week or so after the "incident" and some even 10 weeks or more (See the drug RU486) In this day and age (I know it sounds cold) if a women who is raped is going to have an abortion there is no reason she could not have prevented the pregnancy from progressing by taking any of the many drugs available (and freely dispensed if the crime was reported at a medical centre)

    About retardation in children. It is extremely complicated to predict a retardation in a child until the age of 24 months or so when it begins to exhibit social and learning traits. Most physically debilitating conditions again are not predictable until a child begins to grow and mature. The only obvious abnormalities which can be seen before birth are those such as tumors, extra extremities and potential deformities. Therefore you are chosing to abort a child based solely on its physical attributes. At what point are we selectively breeding our children, will only perfect children do? (Ref; Hitler)

    Regarding lower socioeconomic people. Adoption. If you cannot afford to raise a child then put it up for adoption. There are tens of thousands of couples who are unable to carry to term a child of their own who would make wonderful parents. Also, if you cannot afford to raise a child then where are you getting the money from to pay for the abortion procedure?

    About people being too young to raise a child: Firstly I'd again like to say put it up for adoption. Have your parents raise it, have a grand parent raise it even. Or, take the morning after pill! take one of the many drugs that will prevent you from reaching term and delivering the baby.

    With the wide range of options and drugs available, its not conceivable that you don't have an option available to you before the child has reached say 15-20 weeks. BTW, do you realise the irony in saying "THANK GOD" its legal to have an abortion? I mean... geeze.

    @ Fast. going back to what you said. Refer to everything I've already said. And I'll continue on about you saying it's a woman's right to abort the child. Why does the man not have a say in it? A man cannot prevent a woman from having an abortion and he cannot make her have one. A man is 50% responsible for the child believe it or not. Regardless of the fact if the man wishes to raise the child the woman call still have it aborted. Any man who wishes to have the child could sign a simple contract waiving any responsibility of the woman in the childs life. The man would be the sole guardian of the child and assume full responsibilities. But whats this? the woman can still abort because its "her body"? Complete and total sexism against men.

    Despite everything I've said by the way, I'm an advocate for abortion. I think it should be a fundamental human right and should be completely discrete and subsidised by the government to ensure full access by woman and a non-transparency system to ensure their privacy if they wish to abort. That said, I think abortion should be much more heavily regulated, with an age limit of 12 weeks at the most and a greater emphasis on the taking of drugs earlier on to prevent the fertilization from actually occurring. If a woman still has the child after 12 weeks it should be her responsibility. But honestly what responsibility? Adoption, you are never rejected if you wish to leave your child to the agency. Carry the damn child and give it to a gay-couple or an infertile couple who cannot have a child of their own ffs.
     
  14. Freja

    Freja Level IV

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    Smirnoff: how can you say that young women "just" can give their child to their parents - I mean, it's not a THING. And I dont get your arguments with taking drugs - how is that different from getting an abortion? You get rid of the child either way.

    Dont get me wrong, I think it's disgusting to get an abortion because you dont like being fat etc. (trust me, some people reason their abortion with this) I'm just saying that it should be possible. And adoption? yeah, but we have LOTS of children to adopt away already, and I really dont see that you should have the baby just to give it away. It would be so wrong. Either you have it or you dont. How can you say that you can just get it when other couples want it? That is absolutely no reason to get a baby. You carry a baby when you KNOW you dont want it - come on! If I was absolutely sure I didnt want my baby for whatever reason it wouldnt carry it because the law said so. yes, I did say THANK GOD - I dont believe in god, so .. that kinda makes it okay ;D and I got the irony.

    I think you understand me wrong, I dont think we should just go have abortions everytime we get pregnant just because it's not suiting us at the specific time. But sometimes it's just needed.
     
  15. Smirnoff

    Smirnoff Level IV

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    Do you equate woman who take the pill to aborting on a daily basis? Woman who the day after having sex go and take the morning after pill as aborting?

    I was agreeing with you that sometimes it's necessary to have an abortion but waiting 10-15-20 weeks... there is no justifiable reason. I don't read studies or anything like that but there's a good chance that a fetus is experiencing electronic impulses within it's brain which indicate it is alive. If you have carried a child for 10 weeks already then go for the extra 20 weeks and give it away.

    There are not LOTS of children already up for adoption. There's a reason why couples are turning to overseas adoption and looking to adopt Vietnamese and Chinese babies, it's because there is a relatively low rate of parents giving their children up for adoption.

    You say there is no reason to carry a baby to term and deliver it just to give it up for adoption, I say to you there is no reason for a woman to carry a fetus for 10 weeks and then choosing to have an abortion. You know when you've had sex, you know when your knocked up take the pill and do the smart thing or be responsible for your actions and carry the child to birth.

    As I said, I actually am PRO abortion. I just like to see the reason in things and try to provide an argument from a side which hasn't been defended yet.
     
  16. Freja

    Freja Level IV

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    I really dont get these pills - are you talking about birth control pills ? - no I don't equate that with abortion, silly. But if you take them, it would because you knew there was a risk for you being pregnant. How can a woman protect herself against rapists? those pills are not healthy, you know.

    Eheh, isn't Vietnam and China a part of the world??? - there, lots of babies.

    You don't always know when you're pregnant, no! You first notice the pregnancy relatively late sometimes. It's not like we women has something to tell us WOW, NOW YOU'RE PREGNANT. We have to take the test before we know, and it's not always that there is signs of the pregnancy really early to take the pill.
     
  17. Smirnoff

    Smirnoff Level IV

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    Look, I'm a dude so I know shit all about female birth control but I'll post what I know.

    I'm not talking about the birth control pill, what I am talking about is "Emergency Contraception" drugs which can be taken if you had unprotected sex that can prevent pregnancy. Read about it on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception)

    Regarding health and side effects: According to the WHO the only side effect is normally nausea. Sure it wouldn't be in your best interest to take keep taking them but the point is it's not dangerous to take one.

    Regarding rapists, I already talked about this. IF a woman has been assaulted she can go to any police station, medical centre, ANYWHERE were someone with authority presides and she will be able to receive a drug which will prevent the pregnancy. What I was saying is I cannot understand why a woman would wait until 10-15 weeks into her pregnancy after the assault before she chooses to abort. If she reports the assault, she gets given the drug and the pregnancy will not occur (in like 99% of the cases) I can totally understand if a woman doesn't report being raped or sexually assaulted and therefore never takes the drug and after a few weeks of soul searching and thinking about it if she chooses to abort then I can understand that. But be realistic:
    How many women are raped? How many of those woman would actually become pregnant? how many of those woman would then not report the rape and take the pill to then stop the pregnancy? Your looking at literally maybe 500-1000 woman (In the developed world) globally a year (Though I could be totally ignorant and this number is much much higher)

    What I was saying regarding adoption is that in Britain, Australia, North America, New Zealand, Finland/Sweden/Denmark (That whole Eastern block) there really isn't a large rate of children put up for adoption. I was saying that in regards to you saying there is already a lot of children up for adoption which wasn't true. Which is why couples are forced to look over seas and to 3rd world countries where there are abandoned children in order to adopt.

    I can't really comment on your last thing. But if you've had unprotected sex and your not on the birth control pill then really it's your own fault (and your partners) if you become pregnant.

    Abortions should be an option for those who could not have adequately prevented the pregnancy from reaching such a stage. Rape victims, couples in extreme hardship IE. they were both fired, house just burned down and insurance won't pay up, someone who took a birth control or used a condom and it failed etc.
     
  18. eliisa

    eliisa Newbie

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    Yes, Abortion should be fully available to ANY woman that wants to abort a fetus at a safe point in the pregenacy.

    It makes me sick when
    A. Men believe they think they have the right to tell a woman whether to have a baby or not, Is it thier body? NO.
    B. There are freaks who arent pro-choice who think that their opinion should be the be all and end all on every woman.

    Mistakes happen, Let this be one of the fixable ones.
     
  19. Dreamerz

    Dreamerz Level III

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    Are you talking about the after morning pill or whatever its called its 1-3 pills you take given to you by a doctor though some places have it over the counter its for those who are not on the pill or a condom broke etc and you have 72 hours to take it. If a egg has been fertilized it will be destroyed by this. I don't consider this abortion because the egg isn't even a fetus yet and has no heart beat.

    as for when you said "if a baby isn't wanted it shouldn't be born" all babies are wanted just maybe not by the birth parents so many people who can't have kids adopt so why not give the child a chance at life. Uggghh once again i can contradict myself easy so im going to zipp my mouth on this topic. There are way to many factors just to give a simple answer it all depends on a persons situation, relgion, age, etc
     
  20. Freya

    Freya Level III

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    Well... If you yourself find abortion a good or bad thing or whatever nevertheless I think thagt it should give a safe legal way for woman to do it.
    Because if it is prohibited or not... the people will do it anyways and if it is not safe then the baby and the mother could die...

    Seriously just because of that abortion should be allowed.
     
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