[Solved] Zer0's Conundrum #2 - Congrats Lazypando!

Discussion in 'Contests and Events' started by Zer0, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Zer0's Conundrum #2 has been solved. No additional prizes will be given out. Stay tuned for future conundrums... :D

    Welcome to...
    Zer0's Conundrum #2

    So, in Zer0's conundrum, Zer0 will post a problem (usually math or computer science related) and you will have to solve it!
    First user who solves the problem will win a prize! If no one gets it within a week, there will be no winner for that week.
    Post your answer here!

    Rules
    • One entry per person per contest
    • You MUST provide justification (proofs, etc) along with your answer otherwise it WILL NOT count!
    • No collaboration (I don't understand why you would want to...)
    • No looking up the answer or asking someone for the answer
    • No computer programs unless otherwise specified

    This Week's Prize...
    15 forum cash! - courtesy of some mod!

    This Week's Conundrum...
    Evaluate the following expression in closed form:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. lazypando

    lazypando Level IV

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    94
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    Gahhhh...why calculus?...I don't remember calculus anymore. >__<

    More combinatorics/logic!
     
  3. Cacklenub

    Cacklenub Level IV

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    58
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    It's that or a java programming question which heya would get lol.
     
  4. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    Wut? This isn't calculus... o_O o_O
    You don't need calculus to solve this
     
  5. lazypando

    lazypando Level IV

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    94
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    summation...series...topics learned in calculus

    anyways...what do you mean by closed form...as an expression in terms of x?
     
  6. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    Well its not technically calculus. I mean, there isn't really any higher math involved in solving this expression.
    Closed form: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-form_expression

    So yeah, some function of x
     
  7. lazypando

    lazypando Level IV

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    94
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    no sigma?
     
  8. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    nope
     
  9. lazypando

    lazypando Level IV

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    94
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    I thoroughly do not understand this question. :S

    Common sense tells me that the answer depends on the value of x. Ratio and root tests tell me that if x>=3, the series will diverge...meaning it's impossible to express the answer in closed form...unless you consider infinity to be closed form? o_O
     
  10. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    lol yes, the series diverges for -3 < x < 3 (I don't feel like checking end points, but you get the gist)
    Let me define a function f that equals that expression. Its domain will be (-3,3). N is just a dummy variable in the summation. So f is really just a function of x. However, what closed-form means is get rid of the summation and the dummy variable N, and explicitly define the expression as a function of x.

    For example: Consider the following sum
    [​IMG]
    That's a geometric series, and so the closed-form for that sum is:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. lazypando

    lazypando Level IV

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    94
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    but...but...but
    that only works for x<1

    infinite series that diverge don't have closed forms
    so are we just assuming that the series will converge?
     
  12. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    Just because it diverges for certain values of x doesn't mean its not a function... We are only interested in the portion of the function that DOES converge (i.e. the domain of the function)
    If the series diverges for some value of x, then the function is undefined at that point. The function 1/(1-x) IS the closed-form of that series on the domain (-1,1). We don't care about divergent series because that would be outside the domain of the function!
     
  13. lazypando

    lazypando Level IV

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    94
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    domain of the function?

    maybe we learned different definitions of domain o_O
     
  14. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    Domain of a function = set of values of x for which the function is defined
    e.g. domain of sqrt(x) = {x | x >= 0}
     
  15. lazypando

    lazypando Level IV

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    94
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    [​IMG]

    the function part of that is definitely defined for all values of x...it's just that just some values of x the sum is infinity/the series diverges
     
  16. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    Yeah ok, whatever you learned in school about domains and stuff was all wrong then.
    The function is NOT defined for all values of x. Let's look at x = 5. By evaluating the series, you see that it diverges to infinity. Infinity is NOT a real number and so the function is not defined at x = 5.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_of_ ... definition for the formal definition

    So for example, let's say f(x) = tan(x)
    The domain is not all real numbers. Its R-{x+pi/2 | x = k*pi}
    R = real numbers
    k = integers
     
  17. lazypando

    lazypando Level IV

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    94
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    ..........................................................>____<

    i can't believe I didn't see it earlier (sorry for the crappy equations...I don't have latex on this computer):

    [​IMG]

    oh and I guess I'm just not used to thinking of functions as sums :maha:
     
  18. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    lol, don't worry, math is all about learning new things :arf:
    But yeah, school math curriculums never teach this kind of stuff (and they should!). Otherwise students get the wrong idea of what a function really is.
    And this is why I promote math competitions!

    Oh and yeah, your answer is correct. Though your method is extremely over-complicated. There's a much simpler and elegant solution that doesn't require calculus at all.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    ^ which is equivalent to what you had
     
  19. Tricia

    Tricia Level IV

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,369
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    England
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    Wow. This is biased towards geeks, don't you think? :p
     
  20. Zer0

    Zer0 Level IV

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    Home sweet home
    Re: Zer0's Conundrum #2

    Jealous? :D :lol: