Welfare system

I'm kinda curious to what you guys think of this.
Where I live we have a welfare system; this means that it's free to go to school (you even get paid like 200-500$ - depending on your parents income when you're under 20 anyways - a month for going to school), it's free going to the doctor and get operations etc. (yeah well, free healthcare).
Also, when you don't have a job, the state will take care of you, make sure you have a home and give you some money to help you.

ETC. ETC. ETC. - welfare system!

Now! How we're able to have this, is this "the rich pay for the poor"-kinda-like-system. I mean, my parents pay around 70% of their salary to taxes - which pays for all this. The more you earn, the more you pay in taxes. Also, we have extremely high taxes on cars - I think we are Europe's most expensive. So, Billy - we lose you here :/

But in return we get all this free stuff.
So, my question is - how would you feel about paying that much for free stuff - and paying for other people?
We're talking about this in class, because we have to cut in some services to pay for this - but actually, polls show that we don't mind paying more taxes just to get it going.

 

Agreed!! We have a welfare system here but its not quite that extreme. Too many people abuse the system because they are allowed to. I think it's a great tool for those who need it to get back on their feet and are ACTIVELY trying to better themselves. If I had that much of my money taken away from me I'd be super pissed off. As of now I get about 30% taken out for taxes etc, and to me that's ridiculous as it is. XD

 

I never really payed attention to taxes until, of course, I started getting a paycheck of my own. I honestly everything should be privatized. Every man for himself damn it. My friend's roommate got fired, and is going to sit on unemployment until her 12 months are up before attempting to find a job. Uhh that's not okay because I'm paying for her to basically be a waste of space. This other chick takes out student loans so she can go shopping at BG on a regular basis, while other people who actually need it don't even get approved. So, since there will always be assholes who abuse the system, the government should just leave our money alone and let everyone sort their own crap out.

 

Well we could ship the homeless people to an island and they could have their own society. That would create jobs and stuff too. Genius.

 

I'd rather have ten assholes sponging 30% of my income without good reason, than not pay taxes and possibly deny one person healthcare that is crucial for their survival.

 

There must be a better way to regulate it though. I understand it's kind of a necessary evil because taxes do help a lot of people, but the people who take advantage kind of ruin it...

 

The thing is, I don't mind paying for taxes, but I sort of am a little disappointed to know that not even all my taxes go towards welfare itself. Some times, we have lame train expansions, etc etc. All those other stuff. I'm not paying much now so it's not a big issue. I just don't like how the more you make the more you pay. What about people who are doctors? Their job is stress to the bones, and because they are the top salary occupation, they have to pay more? It just makes no sense. I guess maybe a set percentage is good enough? Then again I don't know enough about this stuff to argue much. Just simply stating my opinion based on what I know.

Then again regardless of how badly people need help, some government just plain like to try and reject people's request for welfare anyways. Don't deny it doesn't happen. I don't mind helping people, but if it would LITERALLY save someone's life, then sure fine.

 

I agree with Junior, I think 70% taxes is utterly ridiculous and would likely result in many leechers. From a utilitarian point of view, it would be much more efficient to give individuals incentive to work hard; ie not so many benefits for the ones with lower income.

The essential aspect of the downfall of communism from an economic perspective is precisely the lack of incentive to work hard. In my opinion a system such as this has the same vitiating factors.

Of course some may disagree with me, with arguments based on human rights and the disparity between rich and poor, but I believe that the foundation of high living standards lies in the stability of a country's economy. Without such a stable economy, the country would inevitably have to rely on help from others (eg many African countries).

 

Yeah, I get it, it's a crappy system, but not everyone's like your mom, Phee. Some people actually refuse to even look or attempt to find a new job, and that's not okay. I'd love if our government would stop wasting our money and find a way to distribute help to those who actually need it.

 

I used to feel that it was unfair to pay taxes for people to lie and get welfare checks so they can sit around and do nothing. I still do think it is wrong for them to get that money, but I do not think that people should not pay taxes and let everyone fend for themselves. I used to as I said though. What made me change my mind? I am no longer able to work. My problem? I have degenerative disc disease along with other maladies due to that condition. My disease has no cure, or no way to have prevented it. It was hereditary for me. I am in America. I am fighting tooth and nail to get help from the government. I have been fighting for over a year. I have MRI's, doctor reports, physical evaluations even. But because so many people have conned the government out of the tax money and so many people protest it, I will probably be fighting for another year before I see any help. Until then I suffer unduly.

That all said, the government is the one at fault. They could very easily institute the taxes allocated to helping people like me onto cards similar to food stamp cards and keep track of what the money is being spent on and busting those spending it frivolously.

 

Some people need to use the welfare system. I personally have never used it but my sister has. She was in an abusive relationship and had to use the system to get out. Heaven forbid something should happen to any of you and be forced to use welfare to get back on your feet. Its horrible, you dont get enough to survive on and children go hungry. In the short term I have no issues with giving some of my pay cheque to those in genuine need. You may be the person to make a huge difference in someones life when they need it most.

On the other hand there are lifetime welfare recipients who take advantage of the system and are simply too damn lazy to get off their asses and earn what they want. Those people I have an issue with. There should be limits to how often and how long you can collect a free cheque. There is nothing worse then living a lazy life off someone elses sweat.

 

The concept of the welfare system has good intentions, but as always, there are some that choose to abuse the privilege and ruin it for those who are genuinely in need. I think everyone here that is opposed to it has seen a first hand example of someone abusing such service provided. I think that the problem is the government not regulating rules and being stricter on those cheating the system. I know here in Australia it's not uncommon for someone to rort the system by claiming disabilities they don't actually have and claiming so much money that they are able to live off this amount. Apart from those people ruining the system, there's nothing wrong with welfare. Note that I do not pay welfare, and as someone who has a job and pays taxes, I support the system.

 

I think it's tough, as some people choose to abuse the welfare system and use it as an excuse not to try to move forward with their lives.

 

As long as people aren't abusing the system I think is fine. But if its the other way around where they don't seem to make a effort to further themselves in life why do it?

 

In the long run socialism doesn't work, because you simply run out other people's money. The rich stop producing because they have enough money that they earned before the gov't started taking all their money, and anyone who has considered trying to become rich (by starting a business) just gives up on that idea because there's just no point to it.

I have a couple friends who came here from Poland before the collapse of the U.S.S.R, and they are always telling me about how little work people would do. Most people did the bare minimum to get through the day.

Of course gov't should help people who really need it, but that just points out another problem with a welfare state...the people who really need it can't get it because so many people get used to sponging that there just isn't enough money to go around. And, it just gets worse and worse as the years go by.

Look at Greece, those people are rioting in the streets because they believe the gov't owes them the ability to live their "relaxed" life style. Gov't has removed most of the competition so no one feels like they have to work to keep their job and there is no incentive to work hard because the taxes are too high. Yet, most people can't understand that there is no money left because, as I stated above, all the other people's money has run out. Several other countries in Europe aren't far behind.

 

Personally I think that in the US welfare should not be run at the level of the federal government but rather at the level of state and local governments. The funds might be better appropriated because the funds are divided at a lower level. Also, if one does not want to pay for welfare, he or she has the choice of moving.