well to me it depends on what you want to believe in if you want to believe in a higher power then your going to but my job is on the science side so im pro evolution
I have a question for the 35 of you who believe in both, in the bible it says god made us in his image? so what does god look like i mean i guess it depends how far you look into evolution like we started as like a green moss or something? i forget exactly how that is but this isnt got also that "green moss"?
When you believe in both, you believe that God sparked life, and maybe pointed certain organisms down evolutionary paths, or created environments that encourage mutation. It doesn't necessarily mean you believe in every single thing about Christianity, in fact, by saying you believe in both evolution and God, that is going against part of what the Bible says about our creation. As for us being created in God's image, image doesn't necessarily have to mean our physical image. It could mean self awareness, free will, any number of things. And according to evolution, we came from a different evolutionary chain from moss. Moss was thought to be the first land plant, but we were thought to evolve from an aquatic animal.
Thats completely self contradicting, i dont see how anyone could actually believe in both to me it seems a lot more like people who believe in both really dont believe in god they just want to believe in him for their own self comfort or to please mommy and daddy. I would never tell someone to change religion but i would suggest that people read into things rather than just dismissing them as insanity. Personally i dont believe in god but i would LOVE to believe that when i die im going to a happy place not that im going to just die and rot in the ground which is what i believe or that my friends and family when they die will be taken to a better, flawless place but thats just not the way it works. I have heard though that before you die just like while you sleep your brain releases huge amounts of DMT (which is what makes you dream) apparently huge amounts will make it so you wont remember the dream but you ALWAYS dream, to me that opens more questions but at least it takes you to another dimension where your not dieing to die?
Why? If you are so sure, then please tell me how the Universe came to be. Was it a really big bang? And if so, how come it did explode? Cause and effect means that you really do need some form of motion in order to effect a different object. That the Universe is just a big ball that suddenly explodes is not valid, as it needs some form of motion in order to explode. And what happened before that? An infinite time of this ball floating in space and not a single time has it gotten a reason to explode? It makes no sense. Something need to "spark" this chain of events that lead to the Universe and as a part of the process, life, as we see it today. Now I don't belive that any god has made this, but I'd prefer to hear your theory before stating mine, just to see if it makes more sense than an omniscent being kicking some heavy Universe Ball butt.
Why? If you are so sure, then please tell me how the Universe came to be. Was it a really big bang? And if so, how come it did explode? Cause and effect means that you really do need some form of motion in order to effect a different object. That the Universe is just a big ball that suddenly explodes is not valid, as it needs some form of motion in order to explode. And what happened before that? An infinite time of this ball floating in space and not a single time has it gotten a reason to explode? It makes no sense. Something need to "spark" this chain of events that lead to the Universe and as a part of the process, life, as we see it today. Now I don't belive that any god has made this, but I'd prefer to hear your theory before stating mine, just to see if it makes more sense than an omniscent being kicking some heavy Universe Ball butt. Spontaneous explosion i know you just said you dont believe that (a) god made the universe but then how would anything make sense for how it was made? A magical man in the sky who "just is" created himself out of nothing is more likely? i dont think humans could ever grasp how everything came to be i dont think we will ever be capable of understanding that its just way beyond us, sorry if i didnt answer what you were asking...
You most definately didn't answer. If you can't come up with a better theory, then don't put other theories down. And if it is beyond us, is there not a chance that it actallu is a God, or a life form living in other dimensions than we do? Other life forms that have made us possible by so called exogenisis or panspermia, and because of their technological (and physical attributes through a looooong evolution) has given them the attributes of which defines a "god"? Or that life forms in another Universe has created a micro universe with built in physical laws similar to their own in order to research from where their own life came to be? Just like we are exploring it, only that we haven't reached so far yet. These could without doubt be considered gods as they would be able to control everything in our Universe. Not necessarily the Christian God, as they might not always want to do us good, but gods nonetheless. As you see, there are many theories better or just as good as the Big Bang theory. Because the Big Bang theory doesn't explain what happens before the bang. Although these are not theories I belive in either, but they're still theories that could support the theory about there being a "God", and explain them, if they were true (which we cannot falsify or prove just yet). And as previously stated, not a God that just "created" everything, but put the gears in motion in order to create this Universe. Making the big ball go boom. Edit; Now that NASA belive they have found ice on Mars, the theory regarding there having been life on Mars at some point is strenghtened (but still we must wait and watch for some findings) and with that, the theories regarding panspermia or exogenisis gains more support.
How is it completely self contradicting? When somebody believes in both God and Evolution, they're taking ideas from both sides of the field. Evolution does contradict Christianity if you take every single thing of Christianity into account, but that isn't what's happening. If you're telling people to read into different religions, perhaps people should also try reading into science. Micro evolution has been proven, evidence of it has been documented from the Darwin Finches in the Galapagos Islands. Macro evolution has not yet been proven, but that's because it's thought to occur over thousands of years. And fossils support that theory. I've come from a religious family, but have gone on to study science. And currently I'm agnostic/deistic. Science is believing because of, and religion is believing in spite of. I don't need religion to tell me what is right or wrong, I believe I can tell the difference. But there are certain parts of religion that are appealing, and a lot of things from the Bible that you would just say "Why?", such as God sending plagues unto Pharoah and his household because of a lie Abram told, found in Genesis chapter 12. But science has yet to create life. Sure, there are lots of theories about it, but in a laboratory there has yet to be evidence of life. And these are controlled conditions. So think about all the trouble we've gone through in attempting to create life, in the optimal conditions we set out, and imagine how much more likely it is that life just "occurred" naturally? Just as likely there is a deity out there with the ability to spark life? Can we place a probability on both? I could say the same thing with the creation of everything. How likely is it that matter came into dominance of anti-matter in the creation of our universe? As likely as God came into being? If humans do see how everything came to be, I would assume it would be through science. Not religion. And with the particle accelerator in CERN, it might just be sooner than we think.
Simply put (assuming you believe both creationism and evolution): Evolution explains how Creationism explains why Science doesn't explain why things are the way they are (by that I mean at the most basic level), but rather how they happen. Example (supposing evolution really did take place): Science would show that evolution did take place, and how organisms evolved over time. But that still doesn't explain why it happened. If there was a 0.001% chance of that happening, then what made "force" made this happen? That's where creationsim takes over. God made it so that evolution happened. That was just an example, and is by no means a complete explanation for anything.
Being a biology student, I have to say evolution. (Theory of evolution and such) However, many will not agree with me, even some of my clasmates, and I respect that point of view.
i think there has to be some kind of higher being that started everything, but i think as humans we don't have the mind power to ever be able to fully grasp the concept or know for sure. evolution all the way after that, though. honestly, the whole 'adam and eve creation story' is just ridiculous. not even my high school theology teacher (who was a nun, btw) believed that.
Sorry about the gravedigging, but I think that this is a pretty interesting video about how creationism turns a blind eye to certain facts in science, to explain their point of view. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd_ssolGNKc
Here is a simple analogy you all can follow. Look at a rainbow. At which point does one colour become the other? When does Red turn into Orange? When does Blue no longer look like blue, but more like Indigo? This is evolution. Bacteria and cells mutating from their regular forms "colours" slowly changing from their original red selfs into their today form, being Orange. Monkeys are Red, we as humans are Blue. Thats how far across the "rainbow analogy" we have mutated and evolved. I can't be bothered to really get into a debate over this as its a completely stupid topic to fight over. No one ever wins. No ones going to one day sit back and think. HUH! For 30 years of my life I thought God existed, but this person on the internet says different, maybe he's right and I've wasted my life. It's useless, tedious and a BORING subject to fight over.
I really don't understand how any educated person can deny the existance of evolution. The given evidence is so abundent that it's hard to DISPROVE evolution at this point. On one side, we have people saying God did this and God did that, with no evidence whatsoever, faith can only go so far (works when people are naive and ignorant, but when people become educated, it becomes harder...every wonder why we suddenly stopped [after people became educated] having messiahs and whatnot after hundreds of them before). Last time I checked, we're over a thousand years due for a messiah on Earth... Now that we have genome mapping mastered, its been even easier to prove the existance of evolution. Religion has always lagged behind science, ie the sun revolves around the earth. It wasn't until what, the 1990s, that the pope finally spoke out on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church that it has finally bought the idea that the Earth does indeed revolve around the Sun. Religion has always been around to fabricate an explaination for the unexplainable for human kind. Egyptians believed there were gods who controlled the crop seasons. Greeks believed in their multitude of gods who raised the Sun and held up the Earth. Indians believed in reincarnation to explain the processes after Death. Science has proven everyone wrong, and will continue to do so. Religion is a double edge sword, it gives people hope and helps people them civil, but it is also one of the largest cause of wars and conflicts throughout history. I believe we can have systems of ethics without religion (declaration of independence), but we can also have conflicts and wars without religion, so everything bascially balances itself out in the end. I think the final nail in the coffin would be the day we genetically engineer a human being, clone a human being, or genetically enhance a human being. Let's see us try to provide an explanation for the replacement of humans by genetically engineered superhumans. The problem lies in our own view of humankind as being superior to all other creatures. Once a superior specie is upon us, the whole theory of god and Creationism would be disproven.
I wonder why, if evolution is a fact, there is no evolution currently taking place. I wonder why, if man evolved from a monkey, there are still monkeys that didn't evolve. I wonder, if the universe started as a cosmic pea, where did the pea come from? I'd say I wonder why it's easier to believe that everything in this near limitless universe came from an explosion in a pea like a snake-in-the-can even though it's truly ridiculous sounding than it is to believe that a sentient being made the universe happen on purpose and with a plan, but I know the answer. In the easier story to believe, we're accidents. In the harder story to believe, we have a built-in responsibility. I don't know fact from fiction here, but I like religion because it gives people a reason to be good and the idea that there's something to live up to. Even if they're wrong, the world is a better place for it.
Evolution is still taking place. You can see evoltuion occur when severe natural events occur that places tremendous pressure on the genetic success of a specie. The classic preindustrial white moth example could be brought up over and over again. Even in animals higher up the evolutionary chart, as the Monkies example you've provided, are still evolving. The problem is that until recently (through human interference), evolution usually occurs over millions of years. Look at the money family and you'll realize the differences in the new world monkies and the old world monkies from south america, and africa, respectively. one grew adapted to life in the south american climate, while the other adjusted to life on the developing african savanas. Humans on the other hand, could be argued, have surpassed Nature's hold and have been able to overcome evolution itself. Nowadays, we have developed ways to mold nature to encompass OUR needs, and not the other way around, such as it was intended. We're causing everything else around us to evolve, hence the mass extinctions of animals worldwide. We're so efficient at molding nature, and the fact that we are able to travel anywhere around the world, makes it so that we are no longer evolving. This may change in the near future, though, if some effects occur that dramatically changed our environment to the extent that we are unable to create a technological creation to reverse it; global warming, nuclear winter, "water world". In this case, chances are, we'll likely evolve to better suit those environments, like the webbed feet of kevin costner in water world. Not everything has to evolve at the same time. Divergent evolution can occur when a population of a specie gets isolated from the other populations. If faced with different different selecting agents from nature, they will evolve to be more adapted to their environment. Place a mountain between populations of a lizard specie, and over a couple thousand years, you will get two different species of lizards that are similar, but cannot reproduce with each other. One will be adapted to ample rainfall, while the other will have to deal with the lack of rain. As for your pea arguement, its really not that hard to conceive that something came out of nothing. The problem is that the way the human mind work, we tend to think towards characteristics of the medium in which we currently live in. To our minds, it is hard grasp the notion of something coming from nothing (though even if you believe that GOD made us, how do you explain how god came into being?). It's like how we are unable to grasp the concepts of general relativity, imaginary numbers, the fourth dimension, etc. until certain outward thinking individuals were able to make major breakthroughs in the fields. Why is it that a fourth dimension is so widely accepted and scientifically proven now when it was such a mystery just a century now? Because we live in the third dimension and our minds cannot grasp the idea of living in the fourth. Think of a person living in the second dimension (a drawn person on flat piece of paper). He can see left, right, up, and down, but he cannot see into or out of the paper. So if we stuck a pencil through the paper, all he would see is a line where the hole is (like you looking at the hole from the side and not up-down). Thats like us. Driving a pencil through our dimension from the fourth would just to us seem like a circle appearing from thin air. I think you have your third point mixed around. It's much easier to believe that God made us than about evolution, as the first is faith based and the second one is scientifically based. It's easier to make up a god to explain for our existance than to actually go about scientifically determining why we exist. As for the third, yes, religion does bring out the good in people, and is the layout for most of the ethics of people worldwide. But this does not mean that ethics cannot exist without religion. I could just as well say religion brings out the worst in people because of the numerous conflicts it has caused throughout human history. Roman times, Medival Europe, thousands of years of Jewish prosecution, central america human sacrafices, slave trade, current pakistan/india conflicts, etc etc etc.
Well good point there friend, and there are Catholic priests who don't make religion seem all that savory, either. But there are pros and cons, good and bad examples of everything, and I believe that more - many more - people will choose a decent, respectable lifestyle if they believe they have a reason to do so than would choose it "just because", just as people are mostly lawful because there is a law.