in the end stealing is stealing to use another post i said earlier just bc i didn't shoot the little kid doesn't make it right that i shot the homeless guy... using a program IS hacking its hacking neo... hacking/ using programs are 1 in the same doesnt matter who u intend to use it on neo or a 14 year old kid ... the INTENT is the same ... if zero made a program that goes on to someones account and just steals there most valuable item is that still wrong? everyone acts like using abers and all that hurts no one.. it does it hurts the people who have money and lives invested in this game it hurts the people that own this game the ones that have the most to lose.. i dont see how u can say theirs a difference "that kid worked hard to get that account" my counter "that programer worked hard on the safety scripts" how do we know that using abers haven't gotten some programmers FIRED... now is a kid losing something on a GAME worse then someone losing there source of income? just bc you steal form neo doesn't make it any more right then stealing form me.. now i know sounds strong point Im trying to make is the principle is the same thing in both.. with both your stealing .. so we have to treat them as the same thing
Snaking an item out from under people in a shop is the same as stealing an item or account directly from someone? not a direct link -----> hxxp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sophistry The statement is so ridiculous that to argue against it gives it more credit than it deserves. So I'm going to give all the answer that is merited. No.
u can say that your stealing the item from tnt's shop no? that aber caused you to get an item you should of never had and that would of went to someone else lets say u ab a mp. now lets say if you wernt there i would of legit rs that very same mp u unfairly got... in theory you stole that mp from me and tnt when you use abers and ssers and such you dont steal things from people no you steal things form a company.. both are the same thing both are stealing
dude just bc you say no in big red bold doesn't mean its a valid lets say IM TNT and virre is accoiunt x with 1mill on it why is it more right to take 1 mill form me then it is to take 1 mill from him?
I'm going to divide the post into several quotes in order to reply to you properly. You can't make a comparisson at murdering people and expect people to take you seriously. I haven't said that it's not hacking neopets, it is. That's why I'm using the terms "auto buying" and "scamming". It's two very different methods of gaining neopoints. It's not all black and white, and scamming is a darker nuance than auto buying in terms of personal suffering. Hence, auto buying is the lesser of two evil. I'm not using the programs on neofriends to ab, I'm not using the programs at all to be honest. I don't even play neopets anymore. But I still find AB'ing more morally defendable than scamming, although both are against neopets rules. So is score sending, usershop ab'ers and auction snipers, but all of these programs make less of a emotianal suffering than scamming does. Of course I'd still think it's wrong if Zero made such a program, and I'd be very surprised if he was able to upload it here since mods and admins have made it very clear in the past that discussions on how to scam people aren't allowed on this site. It's against neopets rules for a reason, but by previously stated reasons, it's the lesser of two evils. Does a program have feelings? Are you really going there? Unless you can actually prove that a programmer has gotten fired because of autobuyers such as the ones here on NF, you really can't use it as an example. I mean, how stupid doesn't the following example sound: What if a kid got scammed and decided to go kill himself because he had worked so hard on his account? And again, I'm not saying that using autobuyers is morally defendable, but that's not what this topic is about. It's wheater or not cheating (as in using programs such as Score Senders or Auto Buyers) is as bad as scamming. My answer is very clear: There is a distinct difference between the two.
my notes in bold * Really ask all the people who legit rs that have got frozen form neo cracking down on abers.. ask ppl who got frozen for "cheating on a flash game" that got frozen when there legit score got reviewed.. the programs we use have caused neo to really crack down on everyone and now the normal legit person is suffering bc if it! how is this different were saying we dont care if your losing everything bc of our auctions as long as we gain form our abers and ssers * in the end its full circle the i got iced thread is full of ppl who were unfaily frozen why is that? bc of ppl using programs .. programs do just as much damage.. programs cause: Inflation that hurts everyone in neo... Wrongful icings people cant play the game legit any more pisses of tnt who make it worse for everyone... programs have caused more damage to neopets then flp/cgers have
Let's say you're a manager at a nationwide retail store. Several employees have told you in confidence that one of your cashiers, a woman 45 years old, has for some time picked her nose very openly while working. Video surveillance confirms the story. You call the cashier into your office, but not before assessing the situation. The woman's age implies a modicum of good sense and/or maturity that is, however, not present. We can deduce that in some ways her mind does not travel the same path as most other adults. Perhaps she also has supporting arguments for why her actions are appropriate workplace behavior - who knows how deep her particular madness runs? Being a person with good common sense yourself, you understand that regardless of what she thinks, her actions are inappropriate and that nothing she can say will alter that fact. Therefore, her opinions on the subject are not needed. Therefore, you will not ask her to justify her behavior nor will you allow her to draw you into a debate about it. The only thing you can say that doesn't encourage a ridiculous conversation or bring you down to her level, is No.
Ok i was going to rip into you here but i wont..... one thing im not a 45 year old woman who's "mind does not travel the same path as most other adults" .. this post was nothing but a clear attack on me that does nothing but show your level of childishness of staying on topic and not making any personal attacks... never insult my intelligence again! you no nothing about me or my life to make that kind of judgment call.. Everything that was happening up to this point was a debate which is what this topic is in... you've just went far out side the rules here and trust me im going to push this for punishment
http* and please explain why a big orange 'no' helps explain your argument again.. without explaining about a 45 year old woman?
i know what analogy is... you were making one of 3 1) TNT doesnt care about cheaters - Quote me form EARLYER post * Really ask all the people who legit rs that have got frozen form neo cracking down on abers.. ask ppl who got frozen for "cheating on a flash game" that got frozen when there legit score got reviewed.. the programs we use have caused neo to really crack down on everyone and now the normal legit person is suffering bc if it! how is this different were saying we dont care if your losing everything bc of our auctions as long as we gain form our abers and ssers * 2) the 45 woman when you think about it: she, as many cheaters do, don't care about 'covering' her bad behavior which is an agurement AGAINST your the position you took so far. why simply write cheaters do, don't care about 'covering' her bad behavior how does this support his agurement of why cheating is better but stating its reckless and they dont care? that's an agurement against it lol 3) me the 45 year old... "Perhaps she also has supporting arguments for why her actions are appropriate workplace behavior" aka me defending scaming " you understand that regardless of what she thinks, her actions are inappropriate and that nothing she can say will alter that fact. Therefore, her opinions on the subject are not needed." your view on me no? "her opinions on the subject are not needed. Therefore, you will not ask her to justify her behavior nor will you allow her to draw you into a debate about it." does that need explaining? i dont need to use my physiology degree to figure this out.. and you can cover your tracks all you want now thats fine and this will be the last i speak of it..
hxxp is to prevent hotlinking, which I thought wasn't allowed on this board. About the 'No.', there was no argument. That was the lack of an argument. About ten more analogies came to mind but since they don't seem to be producing the desired effect, I'll sum it up with: I don't believe this subject even merits discussion. By the way, if anyone cares, the nose picking story was non-fiction. Home Depot, Central New Jersey, she still works there.
AKA- her opinions on the subject are not needed. Therefore, you will not ask her to justify her behavior nor will you allow her to draw you into a debate about it... fits no?
Your notes are in bold, Dark. im not saying there the same thing im saying this is another example of another thing where theirs a darker grey it still doesn't make the other one right. I understand that, but this discussion is not about if it's okay to use programs to auto buy items, that's a completely different topic. This one is about if either one is worse or if they are equal. *this program is what and aber is* No it isn't. The programs here buys items from shops, it doesn't log on to other peoples accounts and steal their most valuable items. The autobuyers have a chance of failing, and they don't hurt a user as much as scam would. People aren't losing neopoints when they miss items because of auto buyers, they are losing an oppertunity to gain neopoints. There is a difference since they might have missed it anyway. The emotinal suffering is spread out so much because of the competition, that restockers won't feel hurt by this. *it was an admin that started the selling of scaming accounts on this site* Mistakes have been made, I'm not going to object to that. *so in court when we do something we can make the defense that we could of done something worse?* This is why we have different penalties for different crimes. A person who stole something from a shop is likely to get a minor penalty compared to a person who would steal from a private person. Why? Because everything is relative. The company has more money than the private person. Stealing an item worth $100 dollar from a company will hurt the company less than stealing the same item from a person. *ment programmer there* So? The programmer probably did a good job on the program, but the difference is that once the program has been written, it can be used over and over again. You can't build up an account as easy as that. And again, I'm not saying that using autobuyers is morally defendable, but that's not what this topic is about. It's wheater or not cheating (as in using programs such as Score Senders or Auto Buyers) is as bad as scamming. *point im trying to make is we fully embrace one as perfectly fine and totally condone the other which is hypocritical we admint one is wrong we all have to admit there both wrong * And it's fine that you think so, but that's not what this discussion is about. Can you please understand that? I'll put it in bold for you: I am not saying that it is or isn't okay to autobuy. I am saying that it's not as bad as scamming. What you're talking about is a completely different discussion and it's fine if you want to have that, but stop arguing against me if you are discussing something completely different. * Really ask all the people who legit rs that have got frozen form neo cracking down on abers.. ask ppl who got frozen for "cheating on a flash game" that got frozen when there legit score got reviewed.. the programs we use have caused neo to really crack down on everyone and now the normal legit person is suffering bc if it! how is this different were saying we dont care if your losing everything bc of our auctions as long as we gain form our abers and ssers * All these people have the oppertunity to redeem their accounts, and this is actually the fault of TNT for being lazy and using automated systems without checking up on the users properly. Your argument can also be applied on scamming, mispriced items can lead to a froze account for trying to scam. You can be frozen for pretty much anything and the blame is on TNT for not handling it properly. It's a collective punishment, and those are not defendable. in the end its full circle the i got iced thread is full of ppl who were unfaily frozen why is that? bc of ppl using programs .. programs do just as much damage.. programs cause: Inflation that hurts everyone in neo... Wrongful icings people cant play the game legit any more pisses of tnt who make it worse for everyone... programs have caused more damage to neopets then flp/cgers have I understand where you're coming from, but the inflation isn't only because of programs, many other aspects play in as well. It was made way to easy to earn lots of neopoints and the shops (not userhsops) have always been taking way too little for sought after items. Add that to the stock market, which is virtually impossible to lose on and you'll see that the programs really don't do that much differnce. It's a drop in the bucket. I've replied to the wrongful icings earlier in this post.
I can kiss a million girls, I can have sex with a thousand girls, I can make love to a hundred virgins, I can get married 10 times but nothing will compare to the ONE ride I always take in a sunny day. The thrill of hacking gives you some excitement and reffering to the first post, it's probably the same thing. There isn't less illegal or more illegal. It's the same thing but hacking is more detectable. But all these things are reportable. All good things that come across bad things makes the good things become bad things. That's the nature of things.
im in bold again my view is there the same evil... to me this post was made a response to get the ability to sell cracked accounts back as heya was one of the biggest sellers so that's the view i took on it as me and him had had talks about this b4...... problem here is clearly that we have different view on what this debate is trying to accomplish now this seems to apply for most of this so i'll edit allot of ur remaining out in our system one has a penalty the other doesn't. thats the point i was trying to make.. its easier to get an account you lost threw a flp / cger back then one u lost threw wrongful ice [/quote] again i'll state i think me and you are trying to prove different things in the same argument with 2 different idea on what the goal of this debate is.. mine "hacking just as bad as using a cheat program?" so why do we block hacking matteral while saying program material is perfectly fine? that the way i viewed this and again we had different views lol
Personally, I'd say they're both at about the same level, but stealing someones account is more direct and focuses on individuals, versus cheating programs that hurt the entire community. It really depends on your ideology. Are you for the Community, or for the Individual? Your answer also says a lot about your political views as well. I have some other smart stuff to say, but I won't due its inflammatory nature.