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Welcome to another day in Communist America!

Discussion in 'World of SPAM' started by Royal, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. saralee33

    saralee33 Level I

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    Here are some facts about universal healthcare;

    Canada-One of the major complaints about the Canadian health care system is waiting times, whether for a specialist, major elective surgery, such as hip replacement, or specialized treatments, such as radiation for breast cancer. Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 57% of Canadians reported waiting 4 weeks or more to see a specialist; 24% of Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room.
    A March 2, 2004 article in the Canadian Medical Association Journal stated, "Saskatchewan is under fire for having the longest waiting time in the country for a diagnostic MRI — a whopping 22 months." :nope:
    A February 28, 2006 article in The New York Times stated, "Accepting money from patients for operations they would otherwise receive free of charge in a public hospital is technically prohibited in this country, even in cases where patients would wait months or even years before receiving treatment...Canada remains the only industrialized country that outlaws privately financed purchases of core medical services."
    (Wikipedia)


    China- A healthcare system tends to reflect the general social and economic mood of a country. At present, the mood in China is one of change. Time has been lost. China has fallen behind the West and is working hard to take up what it feels is its rightful position in the world. The effort to change and modernize is reflected in business, industry, and healthcare. For 50 years the communist government – run according to Chinese Marxist lines – took care of the health needs of the country. It dictated what was necessary and paid for it. The central, provincial, and local governments funded hospitals, and medical care was provided at either no charge or very little charge to patients.
    Now that China has moved into a more capitalistic, entrepreneurial era, hospitals have been told that they have to finance some of their own costs. This is not an easy process for hospitals or for patients. Patients are now being asked to pay for some of their care. There is currently no system of private health insurance, although many firms are looking to start such programs.
    Despite the absence of an official private healthcare system, patients can pay an additional amount of money to see a physician of their choice, at a more convenient time, or to receive individualized care. Some of these payments are official and are set by the hospital, but other payments are of the unofficial variety.
    Doctors and nurses are very poorly paid, and their level of training varies greatly. Training for doctors ranges from a two-year course to programs that are equivalent to those offered by Western medical schools. Specialists are generally well-trained, but there is no national body that sets standards and assesses competency, such as the American Boards or a Royal College. Just who you want to perform your surgery ey? (medhunters)

    England- A patient needing specialist care at a hospital or clinic, will be informed by the GP of the choice available and helped to decide. Since opting for a private hospital makes the patient liable for fees, most choose a free NHS hospital. GP's inform hospitals of their patient's conditions and the hospitals judge the urgency of each against other patients, with urgent need being met almost immediately and others getting appointments. The median wait time for a consultant led first appointment in English hospitals is a little over 3 weeks. [6] Patients can be seen by the hospital as out-patients or in-patients, with the latter involving overnight stay. The speed of in-patient admission is based on medical need and time waiting with more urgent cases faster though all cases will be dealt with eventually. Patient can ask for a private hospital referral at any time which may provide earlier treatment but at full cost to the patient. For those not admitted ímmediately, the median wait time for in-patient treatment in English hospitals is a little under 6 weeks Ibid. Trusts are working towards an 18 week guarantee that means that the hospital must complete all tests and start treatment within 18 weeks of the date of the referral from the GP. Some hospitals are introducing just in time workflow analysis borrowed from manufacturing industry to speed up the processes within the system and improve efficiencies.

    France- Like all healthcare systems, the French confront ongoing problems. Today French reformers' number one priority is to move health insurance financing away from payroll and wage levies because they hamper employers' willingness to hire. Instead, France is turning toward broad taxes on earned and unearned income alike to pay for healthcare. (Wikipedia) France seems to have something close to good from what I can see.


    Basically, everyone will be taxed out the ass, worse than we already are, you'll get whatever care someone thinks you need, when they think you need it, and you will probably get to pay a portion of it anyway. Especially if you wish to be treated before you die.
    NO THANKS :nope: If you want socialized healthcare, move to one of the aforementioned countries.
     
  2. Virre

    Virre Level IV

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    Wow, I can't see how you can draw a negative conclusion of that. Of course there's going to be a long waiting period, the reason is because everyone can get the treatment. In a community with private healthcare everyone won't be able to recieve treatment because they can't afford it. So you're basicly saying that if you don't have enough money to pay, you don't deserve to live. That's not very humane.
    And about getting the care "someone thinks you need", who else is going to decide it? You? In that case, why not just buy illegal medicine over the internet since you probably know your medical condition and treatment best, even if you haven't studied medicine. The people who decide when you get treatment are professionals and are basing their decisions on experience and facts. Don't try and tell me that the average Joe is better at medicine than a trained professional.
     
  3. Fendi

    Fendi Level IV

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    I live in the UK if I want a doctors appointment I can go any weekday morning to my GP without needing to make an appointment they can write me a prescription if I need any medication and I can walk to the pharmacy and pick up the drugs this takes all of an hour/hour and a half there are no extra fees no questions asked. I've been admitted to a hospital 4 times one time I was hit by a car and I got picked up by an ambulance taken into the hospital was seen to straight away had an x-ray was all stitched up and was out of hospital by the next day with a plastic bag full of medication once again no fees no questions asked. The other 3 times were operations yes the waiting times were quite long but my surgery was by no means urgent (one was to get rid of a squint which was purely cosmetic) but I had the operations and had no hassle. My Mother had cancer and she was treated by the NHS and she had no lengthy waiting times. We will complain about the NHS but it would be very very hard to find a British person who would willing give it up. The conservative party even had on one of their posters "It's safe in our hands" in regards to the NHS because they know no one would vote for someone who would take it away. I'm very happy to live in a country where paramedics check for my pulse before they check my wallet. In regards to taxing it's all about priorities what could the money spent on the Iraq war of done for the American healthcare system?
     
  4. Ak*

    Ak* Level IV

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    well the universal health care in Canada is actually very efficient. I had my appendix rupture and they took me in right away and took me into surgery that would save my life. I was also hit by a car in the US on my vacation one time and good luck i bough extra coverage for the trip because they bought me in right away because the med bill was payed by the Canadian government. so... people who haven't ever had the luxury of Universal health care do not know how good it was. my Surgery would have cost me lots of money if i lived in the US. I'm glad Obama's administration is going to push for universal health care. :yup:
     
  5. fail

    fail Level IV

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    It gonna effect my life later, when I'm outta highschool. Here's what I thought: 1) If McCain Won, he'd die in office, so a Woman would Run. 2) If Obama won, he would be shot/assasinated, so Joe Biden would run. Joe Biden = Most Expirience between Sarah Palin and Him, so Obama FTW ^^
     
  6. MCheezie

    MCheezie Level IV

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    Are you serious Virre?! McCain win? I'm not a diehard hater or McCain but I honestly could see no way he would really help America. So many people would only vote for McCain because he was the white elect. American's know best what Amercians need, and thus we elected Obama. American has spoken, a record amount of young adults voted(for Obama).
     
  7. ninjitzumaster

    ninjitzumaster Level III

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    I am mixed about the whole health care issue. On the one hand, I think socialized health care is a wonderful thing, everyone has access to quality medical care when they need it. That really is the way it should be. On the other hand, if health care is socialized, I would be out of a job, due to the nature of my work. My company wouldn't exist, and I wouldn't be able to pay rent. Unfortunate really, to wish for health care to stay the way it is, even though I know its not the way it should be. But then again, if the economy wasn't totally in the sh*tter, then maybe I wouldn't be so worried about losing my job in the first place. o_O
     
  8. Ak*

    Ak* Level IV

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    What kind of job do you have? Couldn't you get just find a new job in the medical field.?
     
  9. saralee33

    saralee33 Level I

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    It isn't hard at all to draw that conclusion when the facts are in print, spoken of on TV and radio and every other means of public media.

    I'm not saying that basically or any other way. I am saying that I don't want socialized healthcare and should be able to opt out. If some people choose to have socialized healthcare, power to them. They can pay for it in the form of taxes. I want no part of it. I have my own healthcare and don't expect anyone else to be burdened by it and I shouldn't have the burden of theirs. THAT is the choice there should be. Opt in if you choose to and opt out if you don't.

    You might be surprised just how much the average Joe/Jane knows about his or her own physical, mental or emotion well being. I know when I have had a run in with poison oak and simply ask my doctor to prescribe the meds for it. He does. I know when my knee is hurting me again and what it takes to fix it. There have been very few times in my life that I haven't known what was the matter and what it would take to fix it.
    As for the other times, you expect me to wait until someone else considers it bad enough to do something about??? Are you serious??? Are you seriously willing to give someone that much control of your life?
    Sure, you can get critical treatment right away and so can every American, insured or not. It happens a bzillion times a day.
    But...you've been badly burned...you were treated right away...now that you are finally out of critical condition you have gone home...but every time you look in the mirror you cry because your face is badly scared...Scars aren't critical, they're ugly...you are young and want to rejoin your friends and go to parties and go on dates...you're not critical though so you get to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait some more.
     
  10. Fendi

    Fendi Level IV

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    We have that in Britain BUPA I'm sure there are more but that is the most famous one you don't HAVE to use the NHS but if you want to pay for healthcare you can and then waiting times are eliminated but we have an alternative for people who don't want to or can't pay which in America there isn't. Like I said I had a turn in my eye when I was younger and it was my doctor who suggested I had the operation I only had to wait about 3 months for that cosmetic surgery. The one thing I think our NHS needs to do is not have closing hours in hospitals yes A&E stays open but cancer patients who want to be scanned wouldn't mind going to hospital at 3 am if it meant they didn't have to wait a long time.


    America will never have a healthcare system like we do though because all the people who could set it up get paid millions by the drug companies to make sure nothing like that happens. George Bush is the highest paid now lets see if Obama is when he gets into power.
     
  11. Virre

    Virre Level IV

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    I didn't say that I wanted McCain to win this election, I was hoping for Obama to win.
    But if the price for Obama winning is that people who supported McCain can't express their feelings or thoughts about the election, then I would rather have seen McCain won. I'm talking about freedom of speech.
     
  12. Virre

    Virre Level IV

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    No edit button in the spam corner? I hadn't noticed that before :S
    I guess I didn't express myself very clear there. What I meant to say was that I can't understand how you can see that as something negative.

    No, what you're saying is that you don't want to pay a few extra cents that might not go to you. Socialized healthcare means that everyone is equal when they need treatment. It's not only about taxes and that you might have to pay for someone elses treatment, it's also about letting everyone having to wait for treatment based on the condition they're in, not how much money they have. Besides, if socialized healthcare was made a reality in the US, you wouldn't need your own healthcare. You wouldn't burden anyone with it and they wouldn't be burdened by you because you both have the same chance of getting ill.
    And if you're not willing to pay a few extra dollars every year that might not go to your own treatment, but might let someone else keep their fingers after an accident or even might save their life then congratulations, you have been able to put a price on life. I could never do that.


    Yes, they know how they feel, but they are not able to make their own conclusions about which sickness they are suffering from. That's why you go to a doctor when you're sick. Otherwise everyone could just order the drugs needed from some online pharmacy (legal or not).
    Of course I am. If you need to draw electricity through your house, would you be willing to trust an electrician to do it instead of yourself? Of course you would, since the electrician knows exactly what he/she's doing and if you did it it could be potentially deadly.
    We have socialized healthcare here in Sweden, and if we didn't have it I might never have gotten rid of my astma I got as a child. In fact, I might not have been able to pay for the medication. We don't have socialized dentalcare (sp?) but I wish we had, because I know that if I get any major problem with my teeth at this point of my life, I wouldn't be able to pay for them.

    And if I had to choose between waiting a few months for cosmetic surgery because someone before me hasa an even worse condition, then I'd be happy to wait. I'd rather be depressed for a while than know that someone else might have died because of my impatience.
     
  13. saralee33

    saralee33 Level I

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    You are being rather impertinent. A few extra cents??? Surely you jest :arf: Next to Denmark, Sweden has the highest tax burden with nearly 50% of every Krona going towards taxes*eyesbuggedoutindisbelief*
     
  14. Virre

    Virre Level IV

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    Yes? And it's not causing any trouble to the citizens. The gaps between the rich and poor is smaller than in the US. High taxes = better healthcare, wealthfare, education etc.
    Why do people think high taxes are bad?